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Becoming a "One-Another" Christian – Shepherd Press Podcast
Transcript
Anthony Russo: Welcome to the Shepherd Press Podcast, where each episode will bring you Gospel-centered, heart-focused conversations with Shepherd Press authors. I am your host, Anthony Russo. It is a pleasure to be with you today. Joining me on today’s episode is Dr. Stuart Scott, author of 31 Ways to Be a One Another Christian. Hi, Dr. Scott. Welcome!
Dr. Scott: Oh, thank you, Anthony. It’s great to be here. Thanks for asking me to be a part of it.
Anthony Russo: Sure. It’s a privilege and a pleasure. For those who may not be familiar, let me give a little bio and then we’ll jump right in and talk about how to be a one another Christian. Dr. Scott teaches in the area of biblical counseling at Bob Jones University and seminary in Greenville, South Carolina.
He also teaches adjunctly at the Master’s University graduate and post graduate programs in Santa Clarita, California. He brings more than 35 years of experience in counseling and pastoral ministry to the show today. He serves as the member care director and a fellow with the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors, or ACBC.
Dr. Scott and his wife Zondra have been married for over 36 years, have two grown children and two grandchildren, and they currently live in Greenville, South Carolina (where I’m also reporting from). He’s been the author and contributor to numerous books and articles. And today, as we said, we’re focusing on one of them, co-written with Andrew Jin, “31 Ways to be a One Another Christian.” So again, welcome, Dr. Scott.
Dr. Scott: Oh, thank you.
Anthony Russo: To set the stage, let me just read the opening paragraph of the book’s introduction. For those who may be wondering about this one another topic. It says, “People created in the image of God are made for relationship. Although the term relationship does not appear as a word in most modern translations of the Bible, the concept is found in all the books of the Bible. The term one another is repeated numerous times in the New Testament. And always in a way that demonstrates how one believer is to relate or be in a certain relationship to another believer.”
For anyone who may wonder about the importance of a believer incorporating and living out the one and others of Scripture, you note a little later in the introduction, “Your relationship with God and your relationship with others is directly and infinitely linked.”
Would you maybe set the stage for us by elaborating on that a little bit?
Dr. Scott: Assuming that you just read through the Scriptures, you’re going to see one’s vertical relationship with God is inextricably linked to the horizontal relationship to one another. Through church history, sometimes they try to part those, you know, be a monk, just get away from people and just be real spiritual.
But that wasn’t true spirituality at all in the mystics and a lot of the monks. It’s not separating yourself. Even back with the 10 commandments, they were all linked. The first four, even the fifth, “you honor your parents as unto the Lord.” You know, it is vertical and horizontal throughout the New Testament.
Numerous passages link the two. So your faith in God, in 2 Thessalonians 1: 3, your faith in God is growing. And then so is your love for one another. In first John, if you say you love God, but you don’t love your brother, you’re a liar. So you just see those, linked. I think I came across the one for husband, live with your wife in an understanding way or your prayers vertically will be hindered.
And we were never created to be detached, just with God only and not with people or with people and not with God. So those have always been joined together. And that really came out when I was teaching a class on the essential qualities of a biblical counselor, all of these one anothers. And I listed them and then began to expound on them in class.
That’s where I met Andrew Jin, who I co-authored this with. He said, “boy, I want to develop that a little bit more too, because this really puts feet on what it means to love your neighbor.” And so, we worked together and then some of the one and others that are discussed in the book are: be devoted to one another with brotherly love, live in harmony with one another, welcome one another, do not sue one another. Each chapter examines one of the one another passages in Scripture in three ways; it gives an explanation, an illustration, and an application.
And the chapters, they’re not long, they could even be read devotionally over 31 days or longer if someone wanted to.
Anthony Russo: And you talked about this a bit, but what inspired you to write the book? Was it just an area of study or did you feel like Christians have forgotten the importance of the one another commands?
Dr. Scott: Yeah, I think, Anthony, it probably was a little bit more not seeing them practiced. And, and not just with people at churches, I mean, in my own life. I’m teaching these things, you know, what it means, what the scripture says what it means, and then we need to apply it. And so, as I’m teaching these, “I’m going, man, I need to get busy.” This is what it means to love one another in the church, in the body of Christ.” And pastoring and being on staff at churches and then just in various leadership positions. Some churches do better at these one another’s than other churches, but I traffic probably more so in churches, in my lifetime, where the Word is really taught, exposited, but not always applied very well. This is what the text says and means very carefully, but when it comes to application, often it can be weak. And so that’s where I wanted to see if we can help the body of Christ to look at these and practice what we’re hearing.
Anthony Russo: Some of the statements you make about living with one another really bring out how Christian love crosses the world’s racial or socioeconomic boundaries. For example, page 18, you say, “God is calling believers, regardless of their social, economic, or ethnic status, to have an equal regard for one another.” And then on the next page, on 19, you say, “practically speaking, there is to be no social or intellectual aristocracy in the church.” And then on page 27, you urge readers to look around you and note those believers who may appear to be left out and welcome them.
My question is, when we obey the Lord’s one another commands, he not only empowers us to live the one another’s, but he also blesses with real joy and unity, doesn’t he?
Dr. Scott: He really does. I mean, you can see if all of these are practiced in a local church, I mean, there’s no one left out. There’s no hierarchy, you know, we’re all equal as people. We have different functions, maybe in the church with leadership, but we’re all equal. And just our focus is: there’s no particular people that are left out, whether nationality or in any kind of an ethnic way. We’re all just one in Christ. It’s just one body with one head. And this is how the one anothers [look]. I think I put that in there. In the book of Luke, the Good Samaritan. We’re often like that lawyer testing Jesus. “Who is my neighbor?” And Jesus [said], let me teach you not only who is, but how to be one. And he modeled that. Jesus was the perfect, “good Samaritan.” And boy, the more we can practice these, the better church life is, and the better unbelievers can look at us and say, they know we’re Christians by our love for one another.
Anthony Russo: And as you’re talking about that, and I’m thinking about how it applies, even within our own families. For us, as men and as husbands, but obviously also for, wives. [Also], how parents would relate to their children and just all those dynamics that God intended through these one-anothers.
So as this relates also to your area of expertise, biblical counseling, many of us are familiar with biblical counseling, but for those believers who may not be. Maybe explain a little bit, like you were mentioning in the beginning, about how the one-anothers, (like instruct one another, admonish one another, comfort one another) are central in biblical counseling. I ask in two ways, one, as far as for the counselor, and then how those help the person that the counselor is trying to disciple and help through problems.
Dr. Scott: For a biblical counselor, which is just another phrase for a biblical discipler, it’s just one believer coming alongside another believer. And helping them either if they’re entangled in some sin or struggling in a trial or both. Could be both. And you’re just coming alongside. So, it helps the counselor or discipler.
We’re equal. You know, I’m not above you in any way. I just want to minister and take these one anothers and practice them. So, it’d be instructing, comforting, encouraging, sometimes admonishing, whatever the need might be and how you love a person and what situation they’re in. I think of the passage in 1 Thessalonians 5, where if they’re unruly, you admonish them. If they’re faint hearted, you encourage them. And if they’re weak, you help them. So, love will express itself in the one-anothers, depending on the state they’re in. And then it helps them, to see, “wow, you’re, you’re doing this out of love for me. You’re not angry with me. You’re patient with me, you love me, you want to help me to know Jesus, to live like Jesus, to live more like him.”
So it’s the family working together, just one family member with another family member.
Anthony Russo: One of the interesting things you bring out in the book is the topic of forgiving one another. In the book, you talk about how saying things like, I’m sorry, or please accept my apologies, have replaced the biblical, “please forgive me.” Even amongst Christians, and that may come as a surprise to some listeners.
Will you maybe take a minute or two and explain the difference between “I’m sorry” and will you forgive me and why that’s important as a one and another Christian?
Dr. Stuart Scott: Yeah. Thank you, Anthony. I mean, that’s a great question. And I think we’ve seen over the past few decades, the drift in our whole culture, away from the moral, into the therapeutic.
So it’s not what’s right and wrong anymore. It’s how I feel. When you look at 2 Corinthians 7, we see the Spirit has taught us there in that passage, there are two different kinds of sorrow. You can have a worldly sorrow or a godly sorrow that leads to repentance. And you go, “Well, okay, I’m sorry.”
Well, which one of those? Is it a godly sorrow, which has much more moral? You offended God, you’ve offended another person, and you need to confess that, humble yourself, ask for forgiveness, and then seek to repent. Which, that is one of the sorrows that is orchestrated really by the Holy Spirit indwelling us as Christians.
But there’s another sorrow, that worldly sorrow. You can see in the Scriptures; Judas was sorrowful, [with] a worldly sorrow. Pharaoh in the Old Testament had a worldly sorrow and just kept doing it every time things let up. He kept repeating himself. So, you see some examples of that in the Bible. So, when someone says, “I’m sorry” today, do they might mean, “I’m broken over my sin. I’ve sinned against God and against you. Will you please forgive me? They might mean that, but it’s hard to tell. And if they say, “I apologize,” well, I don’t know what for, unless they’re specific. So, I think in the area of forgiveness, it makes it much easier for the forgiving one another to occur.
When someone is specific about what they’ve done wrong, then it’s a moral break, it’s a breach from God’s law, God’s commandments. They’ve broken it, they’re humbled, they have a contrite heart, they don’t want to do it again, they want to do what’s right. Well then be specific about that in your confession. It makes it a lot easier to forgive someone when they’re specific about what they’ve done wrong, and they want to do what’s right.
Repent. But the other sorrow is often the therapeutic, I feel bad for what I did, or I feel bad that you feel bad. You know, I’m sorry that you’re offended. And it’s just like, can we just move on? And the sin has never been confessed. And some people will say, well, I forgive you, but it’s, “I feel better about it, even though we’re not really taking care of this thing.”
And that’s a more of a therapeutic model, which has gained a lot of traction in the church today. And Chris Brauns, in his book, Unpacking Forgiveness, really does a good job of elaborating on the therapeutic model of forgiveness versus a more moral.
Anthony Russo: I’m reminded of how the world has, it’s cheap knockoff, if you will, and what God tells us to do is the perfect, best, most beautiful standard for how we are to live. Because once it’s forgiven and confessed, repentance and forgiveness is granted, and it’s then covered, and we move on. Well, that’s a wonderful thing.
I want to touch on two things, one of which you mentioned earlier, how Jesus modeled and exemplified the one and others. Would talk about how Jesus does model so many of these one and others for us.
Dr. Scott: He really does. I mean, everything about confessing, he didn’t need to confess anything. All of the other displays of loving your neighbor, he did it perfectly.
He was the perfect good Samaritan. When we were lost, helpless, dead in our sin, he gave his life for us. He encourages us. He admonishes us. I mean, just think of all of these different one anothers. He bears with our burden. He’s the faithful, sympathetic, high priest, and, and on we go. We look to him, as 2 Corinthians 3:18 says, when we are really beholding him, we’re being transformed, you know, as we practice these with the help of the Holy Spirit, we’re being transformed into his image from one degree of glory to another. And even the Apostle Paul said, you know, imitate me as I imitate Christ.
So, even as, many of these, the Spirit used Paul’s pen to write them. Paul is saying, “Oh, you know, I’m just a shadow. He’s the perfect model. Imitate me as I imitate him.” But yeah, he did these perfectly. And that’s why I enjoy reading and working through the Gospels, because you see Jesus living these out everywhere he goes.
And as He meets people that look like interruptions, his enemies, I mean, everything he’s facing. You see him displaying these, practicing these through the gospels.
Anthony Russo: Absolutely.
And I guess really the last place I want to go with this is, as I was reading the book, I thought about this:
How all of these one anothers as they’re lived out temporarily in this world, as we’re trying in our own, you know, with the spirit’s help in our own feeble human ways, all of these really point to that glorious reality of life in the kingdom. Well, both now imperfectly, but especially perfectly in the age to come. Like you said, we won’t be forgiving one another in the age to come, but that’s something to look forward to, all of these one and others.
Dr. Stuart Scott: It really is. I mean, that question right there keeps our hope eternally focused. I have 31 mentioned, and there’s a few in the appendices that are more particular. But we know even like love one another, is mentioned 12 times and it’s repeated. So, people go, “Well, there’s a lot more one anothers.” Well, there are, but they’re often repeated.
So, you come down to those and then as you mentioned, we won’t need to forgive one another in heaven, in the future. We won’t need to bear one another’s burdens. There’ll be several of them that we won’t need to do because sin will be gone. And sin will be erased, and all dealt with. But, a lot of the others will be, like, there will be harmony, perfect harmony, being with Christ and with one another.
The love will go on for eternity. I mean, some of these will be. What we see in part, we will experience in full the way God intended it to be, and it’ll be wonderful. It does really excite us about being with one another for eternity, when, sin, Satan, and the world’s systems and philosophies are really removed. We won’t have any struggle anymore with all three of those enemies.
Anthony Russo: It sure does. I’m looking forward to it.
Dr. Scott: Yeah.
Anthony Russo: Well, Dr. Scott, I have looked forward to this time together and I’m so appreciative of your time here and thanks for walking us through these one anothers today. It’s been a real privilege to talk to you about these.
And again, to consider the Lord Jesus and all these gifts that God gives us of these one anothers, that we would live in harmony with God and with each other.
Dr. Scott: Amen. Thank you, Anthony, for inviting me onto the program and for Shepherd Press, for being willing to pick this up and put it in print to help others in the church today.
So I’m really thankful for both Shepherd Press and for you.
Anthony Russo: Well, thank you. Well, God bless you, Dr. Scott. Thank you.
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